It’s wrong to grant convicted looters amnesty – CACOL boss

Executive Director of the Centre for Anti-Corruption and Open Leadership, Debo Adeniran, shares his thoughts with MUHAMMED LAWAL on issues concerning corruption, and the government’s wasteful spending, among others.

What are the achievements of CACOL in addressing the corruptible activities in Nigeria in the past and recently?

We sensitise people to the character of corruption in Nigeria. We started in 2003 with preliminary works before the expiration of (Olusegun) Obasanjo’s civilian government and we discovered that a lot of cover-ups were going on during his tenure. People were discussing it in hushed tones. All along, CACOL has been asking the government to do something significant over several scandals that have been attributed to government officials, especially the Halliburton and Siemens scandal where foreigners come to bribe our people. We raised awareness of all of this through street procession and we submitted petitions.

Eventually, Obasanjo was interrogated over the allegations. Also, we raised several points as to what could have contributed to corrupt practices during his administration and how he brought individuals and corporate bodies toward building a presidential library that ought to belong to the Federal Government. He was not interrogated openly but we learnt from his book My Watch that he was interrogated and later exonerated without allowing us to be part of the interrogation. They did not invite us to come to justify our petition against him. We raised such awareness.

We exposed the case of the former governor of Delta State, James Ibori, and we followed it up and wrote a petition when we saw that there could be a travesty of justice in the trial court in the Federal High Court, Asaba. Also, we exposed Allison-Madueke’s case, and we carried out a protest to the Economic and Financial Crimes Commission and Independent Corrupt Practices Commission revealing the ostentatious life her family was living. Of course, they did not do anything when we submitted the petition around 2012/2013 until 2016 when they called us to adopt the petition.

Why did CACOL ask the Federal Government to establish special courts?

We asked for specialised courts to try corruption cases and we believed it would help judges to concentrate on issues of corruption. This will enlighten them and allow them to have time to study cases of corruption. They will have more time to examine all the issues that have been presented before them and they will become specialists. Already, we have it in a couple of states like Lagos State where some courts have been designated to carry out such cases. Then, we have international courts that could try corruption cases, and even across the board, we have had several people tried. For instance, Allison-Madueke has been tried in the United Kingdom as well as the former governor of Delta, James Ibori. So, we are in support of the creation of a special court to try corruption cases because it has become a monstrous crime being committed by everybody both in the public and private sectors.

What message do you have for the federal and state governments on wasteful spending?

Well, we believe that we are supposed to be in an austere period because we do not have adequate income to take care of the needs of the generality of the people. So, our advice to various governments is that they should be more frugal and more sensitive to the yearnings of the people. Also, they should be more empathetic with the condition of pervasive poverty that is ravaging an average citizen knowing that Nigeria has become the poverty capital in the world. The various government agencies and officials should not live an ostentatious life that could lead citizens into believing that the government has abandoned them to their fate, and they should engage in self-help, but self-help will not help anybody at the end of the day.

The governments have to some extent justified their spending. Do you think that is enough?

No, the government can justify anything. It is the government that will promise to build a bridge and convince people that they will build the bridge even when there is no river. If at the end of the day, they did not build the bridge; the government would still justify it. The government can always justify anything; it is the people who should be more vigilant. What we are asking the government to do is to be more conscientious and more engaging in participatory governance where they will give the people a sense of belonging by ensuring they carry out NEEDS assessment before they implement a project on behalf of the people. So, their justification is not enough, it is the satisfaction of the people that should inform their actions and inactions, and give them a sense of accomplishment, not their capacity to justify the unjustifiable.

When suits on transparency and accountability are filed and it didn’t go well, what does CACOL do next?

We are still fighting that there should be an enactment of a law apart from the Freedom of Information Act that will make it compulsory for the government, without anybody asking them, to publish their books; both the income, expenditure, and revenues they generate from everywhere so that it would be in a document that will be made available on the internet for people who have interest to see. That is the hallmark of transparency. Again, when projects are being executed, they should make it known; how procurement is made, the contractors that won the bid, and the bid should be in the presence of the whole world through the mass media, and the people should be the object of governance.

Once there is transparency, there will be accountability. Since the budget circle will emanate from the people through the NEEDS assessment, then the people would have enough materials to track the budget from the level of release to execution and the details of what the budget should contain should be made available to the people so that they can make independent assessment of projects being executed. That is the way to run a participatory government and if they do not do it, we will continue to push for it. I hope the government will not push people to take laws into their own hands to force transparency and accountability.

Also, there should be a trail of probity so that we can go back to their books and still find out what they have done well and ensure that everybody who has committed a crime against humanity does not go scot-free. What we are saying is that anyone who has committed a crime should be punished by the judiciary, and the judiciary should enable, empower, encourage, and dispense justice without fear of favour. That is why we argued for the independence of the judiciary. Despite the enactment of The Administration of Criminal Justice Act, a lot of lawyers have developed expertise in circumventing the ACJA which is why several cases take years.

Like (Joshua) Dariye, (Jolly) Nyame, and a few others, it took more than 11 years before they were convicted and after the conviction, the government gave them a prerogative of mercy which is not justifiable. So, no government should be allowed to release anybody who is convicted on issues of corruption or any crime that involves the generality of the people which is called wholesale corruption crimes so that anyone who plans to commit corruption crime would be dissuaded.

Concerning this, what do you say about Nigeria’s judicial system?

We cannot blame the judiciary so much until we have evidence against them because the judges and justices do not manufacture evidence and witnesses. It is those who brought cases before them that should provide evidence upon which they would adjudicate. That is why we urged the litigants and prosecuting agencies to ensure that they proffer winnable cases in court.

Also, there have been allegations that some influential people are usually manipulating the judicial system. How do you react to this?

Until we have proof that such is done, it is not unlikely that it could have been done. Sometimes when the houses of some Supreme Court judges were raided, several incriminating documents and materials were taken away. Those should be evidence against them and those judges because they do not have humility, they should be identified, isolated, and tried. That is why we rely on the National Judicial Council to do the oversight functions of the offices conferred on them so that the judiciary can be seen dispensing justice rather than mere judgment. Judgment can sway either way based on prima facie cases that have been brought before them. The judges are also human beings, and they may want to falter. Corrupt elements always believe they can always buy their way through judicial circumstances. The judiciary should not allow themselves to be misused.

The Economic and Financial Crimes Commission has always recovered several funds from those who are found wanting. For instance, Abacha loots have been coming unexpectedly. Do you think with the spending pattern of the Federal Government, the funds are being used appropriately?

No, I do not think it has been judiciously used. The Abacha loots have been attached to several projects, including the second Niger Bridge and Lagos-Ibadan expressway. So much money had been sunk into these projects before the recovery of Abacha loots were recovered and we still have several other loots that are still hanging out there. The government should constitute a body that will monitor the utilisation of recovered funds. That is why most of these countries where recovered funds are coming from have been giving us conditions on how to use the recovered funds which is not supposed to be because those countries should be charged for receiving stolen funds. Also, they are supposed to compensate Nigeria for using the funds to fuel their economy. Then, because of the nature of our public officials, no one trusts us with anything. They gave us conditions and these conditions have not been fulfilled. That is why we still have dilapidated roads, schools, and hospitals.

In recent times, Nigeria’s economy has depreciated. The federal and state governments have been rolling out palliatives, but the masses are still lamenting every day. Do you think the governments are wise with the steps they have taken so far?

Well, the government is just playing to the gallery with the so-called palliatives. What the government should have done is to make the business environment easy for the people with the money being distributed by converting it to micro-credit for small and medium-scale businesses so that businesses will thrive. Also, invest in electricity; it is not rocket science to make electricity work in any country. They should pump the money into those areas that will help businesses thrive rather than the conditional transfer that they pay because people will always spend on things that cannot replicate themselves; such things will just vanish into thin air.

They (the government) should ensure that those who are producing have a profitable market where they will sell their goods. The government should regulate and ensure the standard of goods and services being produced in Nigeria to ensure that those who produce them have enough profit. Individuals and corporate bodies should be encouraged to look inward to ensure that whatever they do emanates more from Nigeria and whatever we cannot produce in Nigeria should not be used, and they should promote made-in-Nigeria goods and services. It will help the economy better than all the tokenism that they engaged in or what they call palliative and the rest.

How do you rate President Bola Tinubu so far in terms of his action against corruption and the steps he has taken to ensure there is transparency and accountability?

So far, he is so good, but we cannot be so sure of what will happen shortly. A couple of approvals that have been given are not relevant to the needs of the majority of Nigerians and that is where our worries are. If by the policies, we believe that the economic policies are likely to work, but if you look at the social and governance aspects of it, you will see that it is reckless the way they have appropriated money for inanities. For example, no legislator needs a new car; let them go there and use their cars and if there is any need at all, it should be made-in-Nigeria cars or the most affordable purchase, even if it has to be foreign cars. Why will the government be building a new house for the Vice President when you have an Aguda house that has been there which is modern and accommodating? The Vice President and the members of the National Assembly should have rejected such a pretentious display of wealth, and that would undermine the interest of the Nigerian people. That is why we cannot say categorically that Bola Tinubu has been doing well.

It is not new that the people have been clamouring for a cut in the cost of running governance, but many former governors who are either ministers or senators are still receiving life pensions from their states. What message do you have for the government that has decided to be profligate in its spending?

That is stealing by trick. Whoever has retired or is drawing pensions from any government agency should not be given a new allowance for whatever he is doing for the government. The Revenue Mobilisation Allocation and Fiscal Commission should be the one to regulate that and the Salaries and Wages Commission should regulate what the civil servants take. Once anything goes out of this regulation, it should be termed stealing and members of the National Assembly who accepted what has not been allocated by the RMAFC should be charged with stealing.

Morally they should not have accepted it during this period. Nigerians should be the priority of the government; they should see being in the Government House as an opportunity to serve rather than an opportunity to loot. There is no national cake to share, and if it is to be shared, it must be shared equally and equitably to Nigerians rather than people who are in government thinking that they have the knife and the yam.

Do you think the call for an electoral offences commission is justified considering the high level of vote buying, ballot snatching, and electoral violence?

Of course, it will serve as a disincentive for those who engage in electoral manipulation. Anybody involved in electoral malpractices should be punished and that is why we support the establishment of the Electoral Offences Commission which will ensure that whoever commits any electoral offence will not be allowed to enjoy the proceeds of such crime. Suspects should be thoroughly investigated and handed over to the electoral offences tribunal and be tried immediately, and they should be banned from contesting elections, or they should be sent to jail for life. Anybody who promotes violence that leads to loss of life should be made to pay the supreme price.